Posts by dark angle

62

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

dark angle

hey tetrapod, i find you amazingly humorous. when i was a kid, i had a very simple question that bewildered my old folks. i ask,: if satan knows Jehovah to be all powerfull, all wise, and there is no change for him to challenge him in any manner, then why did he rebelled as we were taught? i observe there was no simple answer to that question. then, on early aduthood, i thought of this: if we were made in gods image, endowed with godlike qualities, would it not be pleasing to God that we are doing things in our own, exercising our talents or wisdom without always leaning on him, to learn from our mistakes, and out grow them. if i were in his position, i would be glad to see humans to doing things their own, maturing, evolving in different directions. after all he likes diversity and change if we glimpse the universe through science. but yet the bible clearly states not to lean on ones understanding.huh

44

Going door to door to recruit members doesn't work

by JH in

when you look at all the hours they do going door to door world wide and then you look at how many hours preaching it takes to bring just 1 person to their organization, it's not efficient.. my mom goes to a baptist church now, and i was surprised to know that 500 go to that meeting on sundays and they don't go door to door to go get these people.. there might be 80 witnesses at my hall and going door to door doesn't make much of a difference.

maybe it's even counter productive since people don't like being pested at home..

dark angle

Abishai, thanks for putting it back to perspective. for that i appreciate. however the question of the efficiency of D2D remains the same. are we,JWs, open to more efficient ways in to reach out the lost sheep? could we be more up the times in methods that reach people effectively?

28

Do JWs know who the king of the north is?

by cultswatter in

i think they used to believe that germany was the kng of the north.

what is their official take on that.

btw does the rev grand climax book talk about that ?.

dark angle

whew, thats a new light! or maybe it will be, if no other nation will fit. heheh

62

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

dark angle

metaspy, i appreciate your answr, and ive been intrigue by that. however, you said: "if satan was considered disfellowshipped or an apostate in the adams time, why was he allowed to have a discussion with Jehovah in jobs time? My question in response would be: why was Satan (a rebel, slanderer of Jehovah, and slayer of mankind) not killed immediately following his rebellion?For the simple reason that Jehovah was proving a point. Satan made a claim against Job's integrity - no doubt all angels that were present could hear the discussion too. If Jehovah ignored Satan, or kicked him out, what would the angels think? It was better to resolve the situation, instead of ignoring it." is my asking about why did they have such discussion is the same why did not Jehovah killed satan? i think its entirely different. but yet, even if they're the same, and the reason why Jehovah allowed such discussion is because to prove a point, does it give us also an excuse to discuss spiritual matters to an apostate if the circumstances are quite similar? your argument about Jesus temptation was, i felt, splendid. there was indeed no in depth discussion between them and it was also a temptation not a spiritual sharing. thanks for pointing that out. about the definition you gave about influence you said: Main Entry: influence Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): -enced; -enc·ing 1 : to affect or alter by indirect or intangible means : SWAY 2 : to have an effect on the condition or development of : MODIFY So now I ask, was Jehovah altered in any way? Was his condition effected? Was he modified by the discussion? If the answer is yes to any of these, please point out the scripture that tells us how he was altered/modified. my common sense tells me that the answer was YES AND NO. YES in the sense that satans request was granted to a degree to test job(1 : to affect), which Jehova would never do to Job. but he granted and tolerated such humiliation on Job NO in the sense that Gods nature was not altered in those accounts(MODIFY). anyways thanks for posting answers here. it made this a lively discussion.

39

Question, What will happen to the earth and the Animals?

by unbaptized in

question, if everyone who professes to be christian are going to heaven to rule as priest with jesus, who will be our subjects on earth?

can someone pleasee shed some light on this subject..

dark angle

"Trust In Jehovah." He will probably move us all to another galaxy (or something) in a great galactic battlestar capable of defeating Satan and Darth Vader, before the earth is burned up by the Sun, Moshe. It will probably be like a great Noah's Ark in outer space and Jehovah's chosen people will be the first ones in existence to live forever, with God and Jesus and the 144K all smiling up from 7th Heaven at the chosen ones. hahahhahah i find that answer interesting! might also make a great movie epic!

62

If Jesus could talk to Satan...

by AuldSoul in

consider the scene: jesus has just been baptized and immediately leaves for an extended stay in the wilderness all on his lonesome.

now ... already this is something the governing body would discourage any jw from doing, but i digress.. along comes satan.

jesus knows it is satan, because of how satany he is.

dark angle

metaspy, thanks for that answers you gave. it seems to have balanced the arguments here. however, a curious question for you i have. if satan was considered disfellowshipped or an apostate in the adams time, why was he allowed to have a discussion with Jehovah in jobs time? in principle, why was he allowed to have a discussion and influenced Jehovah ( as audsoul pointed out)? this mystery of our dealings with the apostate, i felt, should be solidly based on scripture specially that we are acknowledging to be Gods true witnessess.

17

Pay it forward...

by AuldSoul in

okay, so in line with the concept of the movie pay it forward, how can jws best save the most people?.

(1) murder is a sin.. (2) people who are repentant of sins are forgiven.. (3) people who go to hell (the common grave of mankind) are still alive in god's eyes, just sleeping.. (4) ergo, if a jw sends someone to hell the jw hasn't sinned.. now, that gets the basic doctrine stuff out of the way.. if every jw kills one thousand non-jw people there will be about 6,000,000 jws left.

if every one of these repents over the deaths of whichever ones didn't go to hell, they will have saved way more people than they ever can by preaching.. and, if by chance they miss out on everlasting life by helpig someone else to attain it: no greater love has any.... any questions?

dark angle

audsoul, few people could put that thinking as straight forward as you do and several members here. at times i had the feeling similar to scully. it is quite a subtle scare tactic. but i have to point out that such a scenario(the killings) is very unpopular & remote through out the JW community. however i must admit that it is a logical consequence of our belief system and i don't see yet anything that could answer that. but what troubles me now is that why does an allpowerfull being needs constantly be praised? why does he hunger so much glorification? i'm eager on what could you say on that.

17

Pay it forward...

by AuldSoul in

okay, so in line with the concept of the movie pay it forward, how can jws best save the most people?.

(1) murder is a sin.. (2) people who are repentant of sins are forgiven.. (3) people who go to hell (the common grave of mankind) are still alive in god's eyes, just sleeping.. (4) ergo, if a jw sends someone to hell the jw hasn't sinned.. now, that gets the basic doctrine stuff out of the way.. if every jw kills one thousand non-jw people there will be about 6,000,000 jws left.

if every one of these repents over the deaths of whichever ones didn't go to hell, they will have saved way more people than they ever can by preaching.. and, if by chance they miss out on everlasting life by helpig someone else to attain it: no greater love has any.... any questions?

dark angle

seems this discussion is dangerous, but i like the free thoughts here. AUDSOUL, thats an intruiging concept you boldly indorse. i haven't thought of that. Its more than even the extremist islam...

39

Question, What will happen to the earth and the Animals?

by unbaptized in

question, if everyone who professes to be christian are going to heaven to rule as priest with jesus, who will be our subjects on earth?

can someone pleasee shed some light on this subject..

dark angle

according to the JW beliefs, there are two types of hopes for faithful christians. 1) heavenly hope-which has a limited number of persons, 144k only, who will rule in christ in heaven.(i wonder how could they know that the limit is reach & who could verify that those partakers are really invited by god in heaven!) 2) earthly hope-those who will not be included in the 1st one, have propects to live forever here in an earthly paradise.(this is one of the great baffling questions in my mind: infinite life & existence is nowhere found in our universe)

16

Governing Body; Old/New Light

by Mikeus in

i know that sometime, somewhere the gb has claimed to be "jehovah's channel of truth" and given divine knowledge/revelation directly from angels.

could someone please provide me with some quotes?.

i'm speaking with a jw right now who says they don't care if the gb has made changes/mistakes in doctrine in the past because it's "old light".

dark angle

i thank god, i was able to get here. i was borne as witness and all the years i have been taught to listen and obey jehovah through the direction of the GB. my father was an ex DO, CO, and SP and have been a devout follower until he died. my mother also is very devoted to our faith. so i was really a hardcore jw. however, as grow old i have a lot of questions about the gb which scared everyone in the our cong. questions such as who could verify the their claim to a channel of jehovah is true? is there any evidence inside or outside the organization that could test that claim? for years i have been very discreet about asking such questions because of fear that my family or any member might think that i am an apostate. however, since i got online this month, i was able to browse several sites that offered free expresion of thought & inquires. one of the best i saw was here. thanks everyone!i'll be reading all of your interesting ideas